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cobrachen
ºÞ®a

4513 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  00:20:30  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Click to see cobrachen's MSN Messenger address Send cobrachen a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by dasha
1949¦~¥H¨Ó,¤¤µØ¥Á°êªÅ­x±q¨Ó¨S¦³®³¨ì¹L²Å¦X§Ú­Ì§@¾Ô»Ý¨Dªº­¸¾÷¹L,·íµM¦­´Áªº»Ý¨D¬O¤Ó­V¤F,­n¯à¤Ï§ð¤j³°?¥i¬O²{¦b°Ú......




¬Ý¤F³Ìªñ¤@´ÁªºProceedings·í¤¤¤@½gÁ¿¨ìLCSªº¤å³¹¤§«á¡Aµo²{§Ú­Ì®ü­x25¦~«á¤]·|¦³¤í¯Ê¥i¶Rªº¦Ò¼{ªº°ÝÃD¡C
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  06:23:09  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by cobrachen

quote:
Originally posted by dasha
1949¦~¥H¨Ó,¤¤µØ¥Á°êªÅ­x±q¨Ó¨S¦³®³¨ì¹L²Å¦X§Ú­Ì§@¾Ô»Ý¨Dªº­¸¾÷¹L,·íµM¦­´Áªº»Ý¨D¬O¤Ó­V¤F,­n¯à¤Ï§ð¤j³°?¥i¬O²{¦b°Ú......




¬Ý¤F³Ìªñ¤@´ÁªºProceedings·í¤¤¤@½gÁ¿¨ìLCSªº¤å³¹¤§«á¡Aµo²{§Ú­Ì®ü­x25¦~«á¤]·|¦³¤í¯Ê¥i¶Rªº¦Ò¼{ªº°ÝÃD¡C


LCS is basically a corvette, which is not designed for "big fleet actions". NoSN is retiring all frigate, soon their "Hi-Lo mix" will only have very high (CVN, CGX, DDX....) and very low (LCS) but nothing in between as they don't need "Ocean Escort" such as frigate anymore..........

So, either Taiwan have to buy ships from Europe (I want Type-45 but not the shitty French design) or design on their own based on FFG-7 (such as F-100?????).....

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
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cobrachen
ºÞ®a

4513 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  06:57:18  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Click to see cobrachen's MSN Messenger address Send cobrachen a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
¶R°ª¶¥ªº¡A§Ú­Ì¨S¦³°t®Mªº¨t²Î¡A¬Æ¦Ü·|¦]¬°¤Ó¶Q¦ÓµLªk¦³®Ä¾Þ§@¡CLCS³s°Ï°ì¨¾ªÅ­¸¼u³£¨S¦³¡A¥i¥H©M©Ôªk¸­¬Û¤ñ¡C²{¦b¤£¶}©l³W¹º¡A¥H«á¬O¥´ºâ§â®ü­xÅܦ¨¥u¦³³°¾Ô¶¤¶Ü¡HÁÙ¬O§Ú­Ì¥´ºâ¥Î¸U²î»ôµo°Ç¡H
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Captain Picard
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

9618 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  08:17:38  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Captain Picard a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
>¦pªG¬ü°ê·íªì¦³²£F-20,¨º,¤W­±¨ººØ¹ï¸Ü´N·|¥X²{¦b§Ú­Ì­n¨DF-16ªº®É­Ô¤F......

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http://www.mdc.idv.tw/mdc/
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Steve Su
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

2195 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  10:48:57  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Steve Su a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by cobrachen

¶R°ª¶¥ªº¡A§Ú­Ì¨S¦³°t®Mªº¨t²Î¡A¬Æ¦Ü·|¦]¬°¤Ó¶Q¦ÓµLªk¦³®Ä¾Þ§@¡CLCS³s°Ï°ì¨¾ªÅ­¸¼u³£¨S¦³¡A¥i¥H©M©Ôªk¸­¬Û¤ñ¡C²{¦b¤£¶}©l³W¹º¡A¥H«á¬O¥´ºâ§â®ü­xÅܦ¨¥u¦³³°¾Ô¶¤¶Ü¡HÁÙ¬O§Ú­Ì¥´ºâ¥Î¸U²î»ôµo°Ç¡H



©È¥u©È®ü­xªº¸£³U¤]¸ò¤£¤W¡AÁÙ­n¦bLCS¤W­±¸Ë40¯¥...
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chinyu_su
­è­è¤Jªù

Taiwan
10 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  11:25:46  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send chinyu_su a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by msbe

1.IDF§t¶q²£¤Î¥ý¾É¶q²£¾÷¦@¤Q¬[/1992¦~¥¼­×§ï³nÅé«e±À¤O:
³Ì¤j­x±À:10000lb
³Ì¤j«á¿U±À¤O:16700lb

2.IDF±À¤O:
³Ì¤j­x±À:11500lb
³Ì¤j«á¿U±À¤O:19200lb

®ü¥­­±³Ì¤j­x±À:¬ù9545lb
®ü¥­­±³Ì¤j«á¿U±À¤O:16100lb

¬Ý¨ÓIDF³o°ÝÃD´X¥GµL¸Ñ,´Nºâ¬O±N³æ¨ã±À¤O¥W¨ì10000lb¥H¤W,
¥Nªíªº¤]¶È¬O±À¤O°I´î«á¼W¥[ªº¤Ö¶q±À¤O,¤ÎÁY´îµo°Ê¾÷¹Ø©R¦Ó¤w.



¥i¬O¦pªG¹ïµo°Ê¾÷§@ºë¶i,§÷®Æ§ïµ½,¯Óªo²v­°§Cµ¥,¦p¬ü°ê¹ïµo°Ê¾÷ªº§ïµ½µ¥°Ê§@,³o¼Ë¤]¬O¥i¥H§ïµ½IDFªº©Ê¯à,¦Ó¥B²Ö¿n¯à¤O.
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msbe
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

762 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  11:53:29  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send msbe a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by chinyu_su

[quote]Originally posted by msbe


¥i¬O¦pªG¹ïµo°Ê¾÷§@ºë¶i,§÷®Æ§ïµ½,¯Óªo²v­°§Cµ¥,¦p¬ü°ê¹ïµo°Ê¾÷ªº§ïµ½µ¥°Ê§@,³o¼Ë¤]¬O¥i¥H§ïµ½IDFªº©Ê¯à,¦Ó¥B²Ö¿n¯à¤O.


¤p§Ì»{¬°ÁÙ¤£¦p±N¶i®ð¹D§ï¤j¤@ÂI,§ïµ½¶i®ð¶q¤£¨¬ªº°ÝÃD,
¥u¬O³o·d¤£¦nÁÙ±o­«§j­·¬}....

¤Ï¥¿10005/10006¥Ø«e¬Ý¨Ó¤]À³¸Ó¬O"·§©À¾÷",¤]¨S¤H³W©w¤é
«á­n·dµ¾ª@¾÷´N«D±o¦Ñ¾÷¨­³]­p¤£¥i....

Edited by - msbe on 01/22/2009 11:54:41
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toga
ª©¥D

Tajikistan
12544 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  11:56:27  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send toga a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
­º¥ý¥xÆW¹ïTFE-1042¦³µL¦Û¦æ­×§ï¨äµ²ºc³]­pªºÅv§Q¡A¥»¨­´N¬O­Ó°ÝÃD ~ ³s³nÅé­­¨î³£±o¦V¬ü¤è¦A¤T½Ð©R¡A¤è»X¨ä®¦­ã¨ú®ø¡A´q½×¦Û§@¥D±i¦a¦bµwÅéµ²ºc¤W¤j°Ê¤â¸}??

¦Ó¥H¥xÆW¥»¨­¥Ø«eªº§Mª÷­«¤u»P§÷®Æ¬ì§Þ¹ê¤O¡A¦³µL¯à­@§âTFE-1042¶V§ï¶V¦n¡AÁÙ¬O¥u·|­«Áж³°\¥Ò¨®ÂÐÂ᪺¥[±jª©¡A¤S¬O­Ó°ÝÃD¡C

³Ì«á¥ý¬OªÅ­x¡A²{¦ü¥G¦b³s¤¤¬ì°|³£¦­´N©Z©Ó¤j´T§ï¨}¸g°ê¸¹ªº°Ê¤O¨t²Î¯à²Å¦X¦¨¥»®Ä¯q»Pº¡¨¬§@¾Ô»Ý­n¡A©Ò¥HÅãµM¤£·|¦³¸êª÷§ëª`¦b³oºØ­ì©l³]­pªÌ»P°ß¤@¨Ï¥Î«È¤á³£¤£»{¬°¦³»ù­È©M¥i¦æ©Êªººc·Q¤W ~ ³o¬O³Ì¤jªº°ÝÃD......

Toga, ¦v¨k¤T¤Q¤@®Ú¯ó

Edited by - toga on 01/22/2009 12:01:37
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dasha
ª©¥D

41508 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  14:07:53  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send dasha a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
§Ú­Ì®ü­x¥´ºâ«ç»ò¿ì¦Ñ¹ê»¡§n¦h¦~¤£¥ð,LCS­Ë¬O¥i¥H¸Ñ¨M³o°ÝÃD--³q³q¤p²î¤Æ´N¦n,§OÅo­ö¤F.
·í¦~­n¤£¬O¹p®Ú¤£ºÞF-16/20³£¤£ªÖ½æ,¦Ó¥uªÖ½æ§ï¨}ªºF-5Eµ¹§Ú­Ìªº¸Ü,¤£ºÞ§Ú­ÌªÅ­x«ç»ò·Q,¯à¶R¨ìªº´N¬O¥u¦³F-16/79©ÎF-20,·|¶Rªº¤]´N¥u¬O³o­Ó,»P§A«ùÄò¥Ó½Ð´X¦~µLÃö.

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http://www.hbhousing.com.tw/web/A002/index.asp?module=search&file=Detail&No=Z087382%20%20%20&AID=A002
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  14:46:17  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by Steve Su

quote:
Originally posted by cobrachen

¶R°ª¶¥ªº¡A§Ú­Ì¨S¦³°t®Mªº¨t²Î¡A¬Æ¦Ü·|¦]¬°¤Ó¶Q¦ÓµLªk¦³®Ä¾Þ§@¡CLCS³s°Ï°ì¨¾ªÅ­¸¼u³£¨S¦³¡A¥i¥H©M©Ôªk¸­¬Û¤ñ¡C²{¦b¤£¶}©l³W¹º¡A¥H«á¬O¥´ºâ§â®ü­xÅܦ¨¥u¦³³°¾Ô¶¤¶Ü¡HÁÙ¬O§Ú­Ì¥´ºâ¥Î¸U²î»ôµo°Ç¡H



©È¥u©È®ü­xªº¸£³U¤]¸ò¤£¤W¡AÁÙ­n¦bLCS¤W­±¸Ë40¯¥...


the USN LCS will be installed with 57mm guns anyway, so installing 40mm gun is not too strange, what is strange is how Taiwan going to develope their navy. An ocean navy with large ships will be expansive but very useful for Taiwan's defense (especially f Taiwan want to make multi-layer defences), a coastal navy with LCS is nothing more than a coastal guards, which is cheap but useless in big wars ....

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
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SK2
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

2341 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  14:57:53  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send SK2 a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by rockitten
the USN LCS will be installed with 57mm guns anyway, so installing 40mm gun is not too strange, what is strange is how Taiwan going to develope their navy. An ocean navy with large ships will be expansive but very useful for Taiwan's defense (especially f Taiwan want to make multi-layer defences), a coastal navy with LCS is nothing more than a coastal guards, which is cheap but useless in big wars ....



Or maybe RoCN thinks the same as the USN, that is, patrolling others coastline, to be coast guard of other countries

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dasha
ª©¥D

41508 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  15:03:45  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send dasha a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by SK2

quote:
Originally posted by rockitten
the USN LCS will be installed with 57mm guns anyway, so installing 40mm gun is not too strange, what is strange is how Taiwan going to develope their navy. An ocean navy with large ships will be expansive but very useful for Taiwan's defense (especially f Taiwan want to make multi-layer defences), a coastal navy with LCS is nothing more than a coastal guards, which is cheap but useless in big wars ....



Or maybe RoCN thinks the same as the USN, that is, patrolling others coastline, to be coast guard of other countries





¥H«e®ü­x¸Ë¤@°ï40mm¬¶,´N¬O¦]¬°®ü­x¯uªº¬O³o¼Ë°µªº,¦ý¥¼¨Ó©O?
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http://www.hbhousing.com.tw/web/A002/index.asp?module=search&file=Detail&No=Z087382%20%20%20&AID=A002
¥x¥_¿¤ªO¾ô¥«¤jÆ[¸ô¤@¤G¼Ó¤½´J,±µªñ°ê¤p¦Ü¤j¾Ç¦U¯Å¾Ç®Õ¤Î¤½¨®Á`¯¸,Â÷±¶¹B¤ÎªO¾ô¨®¯¸¤£»·.
¸Ô±¡½Ð¬¢0931043559¥Ð¤p©j
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rockitten
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

Australia
8191 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  15:24:47  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send rockitten a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by dasha


¥H«e®ü­x¸Ë¤@°ï40mm¬¶,´N¬O¦]¬°®ü­x¯uªº¬O³o¼Ë°µªº,¦ý¥¼¨Ó©O?
LCS¹ê»Ú¤W¬O»·¬vÄ¥,¦ý¬O¦]¬°¬ü°ê®ü­xªº¯S®í»Ý¨D,¨ä¤ô­±§@¾Ô»P¨¾ªÅ¤õ¤O¶W§C,¤Ï¼ç­n¬Ý¸Ë¤Wªº®M¥ó¦Ó©w,±j½Õªº¬O¹B¸É¯à¤O»Pªu©¤µu¶ZÂ÷ºë½T©¤ÅF¯à¤O,¦ý¤¤µØ¥Á°ê¬Ó®a®ü­xªº»Ý¨D¥i§¹¥þ¤£¦P......


That's why I said LCS is a corvette, or a military USCG Cutter.....

But do you think the hull form of LCS have the potential to "up-gunned" to a frigate class combatant ??
-
from Austal, I have heard some say yes, some say no ....

¤p¿ß¤£·|§@¼Ò«¬¡A¤p¿ß¥u·Rª±¼Ò«¬¡F¬Ý¦ü¤p¿ßª±¼Ò«¬¡A¨ä¹ê¼Ò«¬ª±¤p¿ß¡G
A B ¸É¤g¥Õ½¦±ø¡A¾ð¯×§ï®M»k¨è¤ù¡F¥W½u¥Y½u¥W¥Y½u¡A°®¿i¤ô¿i¾V¤M¿i¡F
¤ô©Êªo©Ê®ø¥úº£¡A°®±½¤â±½¼Qºj±½¡F¼Ò«¬¤@²°¤T¦Ê´X¡A¹s¥ó¤@°ï¤T¤d´X¡F
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dellasus
·s¤â¤W¸ô

174 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  16:13:32  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send dellasus a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by toga

quote:
Originally posted by dellasus

´N§Ú©Òª¾.
IDF¤£¬O±À­«¤ñ¬O1 ¥H¤Wªº¶Ü?

M-2000-5 ªº±À­«¤ñ§ó¬O¤£¨ì1.

¨º¬°Ô£IDF ªº±À¤O·|¤£¨¬©O?



¦]¬°±À­«¤ñ¬O·¥«×²¤Æ¤S±`±`¥X¥]ªº²Ê¦ô¤è¦¡¡C

¤@¯ë§{¶¡©Ò¯à¬Ý¨ìªº±À­«¤ñ¼Æ¾Ú¬O®³¾Ô¾÷¤ÞÀº¦b¼Ð·Ç¤j®ð»P·Å«×ª¬ªp¤U¡A©ó®ü¥­­±°ª«×ÀR¤îª¬ºA®Éªº³Ì¤j«á¿U±À¤O¡þ­x¥Î±À¤O¼Æ¦r¡A¥h°£¥H¾Ô¾÷¦b¯S©w§@¾Ôºc«¬¤Uªº­«¶q©Ò±o¨ìªºµ²ªG¡A¦Ó³o©M¦U¾Ô¾÷¦b¤£¦P³t«×°ª«×­¸¦æ¤Uªº¹ê»Úªí²{¡A¸g±`¬O¤Ñ®t¦a»·¡C

¤Û¶H¨â¤d´N¬O³Ì¦nªº¨Ò¤l¡Aªí­±¤W¦pªG¥uºâ¾Ô¾÷¦b¼Ð·Çª¬ªp¤U©ó¦a­±ÀR¤îª¬ºA®É¤§ªÅ¾Ô±À­«¤ñªº¸Ü¡A«h¤Û¶H¨â¤dªºªí²{¡]0.91¡^¤£¶È§C©óF-CK-1¡]1.01¡^¡A©MF-16 A/B MLU¡]1.14¡^»PF-16C/D BLOCK52¡]1.28¡^¬Û¤ñ§ó¬O¤Ñ®t¦a»·¡AµM¦Ó®Ú¾Ú§ÆþªÅ­xªº¾Þ§@¸gÅçÅã¥Ü¡A·í­¸¦æ°ª«×¶W¹L¨â¸U­^§`®É¡A¤Û¶H¨â¤dªº±À¤O¯à¶q©Ê¯àªí²{·|¤Ï¹L¨Ó¥þ­±À£­Ë¥]¬A«á´Á«¬F-16C/D¦b¤ºªº©Ò¦³¾ÔÔG®a±Ú¦¨­û¡A¥B¦b°ª«×¶V°ª¡A­¸¦æ³t«×¶V§Ö®É®t¶Z¶V¤j¡C

Toga, ¦v¨k¤T¤Q¤@®Ú¯ó



20000­^§`....¤£´N¬OÄÝ°ªªÅ¤F¶Ü?
¨º¦b¤¤ªÅ¥H¤U©M¸ûºC³t«×¾÷°Ê¤O·|§_¤ñIDF/F-16 ®t?
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Captain Picard
§Ú¬O¦Ñ³¾

9618 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  16:16:49  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Captain Picard a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
>But do you think the hull form of LCS have the potential to "up-gunned" to a frigate class combatant ??

´N­n¬Ý¥H¦â¦CªºSAAR-5+»Pªü©Ô§Bªº¡u¤TÅ骩¤p¯«¬Þ¡v¯à§_¦¨¥\¤F¡C

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http://www.mdc.idv.tw/mdc/
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Steve Su
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

2195 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  17:58:42  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Steve Su a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
ÃD¥~¸Ü¡A80¦~¥N¤¤´ÁªÅ­x¤]¦³³¡¤À¤H´£¥X±ËF-16§ïF/A-18ªº·N¨£¡C
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dasha
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41508 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  18:32:58  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send dasha a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
20000ft¦b²{¥N­¸¾÷¨Ó»¡ºâ¤¤¼hªÅ°ì¤F.
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toga
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Tajikistan
12544 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  20:48:23  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send toga a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by dellasus
20000­^§`....¤£´N¬OÄÝ°ªªÅ¤F¶Ü?
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Toga, ¦v¨k¤T¤Q¤@®Ú¯ó

Edited by - toga on 01/22/2009 20:49:01
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dasha
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41508 Posts

Posted - 01/22/2009 :  22:32:32  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send dasha a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by toga


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MikeH
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USA
4668 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  02:06:15  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Visit MikeH's Homepage Send MikeH a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
§ó§C³t®ÉÁÙ¦b»P¶]¹D¿Ë¼ö


§óÁVªº¬OÁÙ·|º|ªo :)

MikeH
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blackknight
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4339 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  13:26:19  ·|­û¸ê®Æ  Click to see blackknight's MSN Messenger address Send blackknight a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
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berkut
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215 Posts

Posted - 01/23/2009 :  17:06:28  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send berkut a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
quote:
Originally posted by toga
¦]¬°±À­«¤ñ¬O·¥«×²¤Æ¤S±`±`¥X¥]ªº²Ê¦ô¤è¦¡¡C


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toga
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Tajikistan
12544 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  11:44:39  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send toga a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
¤@¯ë·|¹ï¥~¬É¤½§Gªº±À­«¤ñ¼Æ¾Ú¡A©Î¬O·~¾l·R¦nªÌ©Ò¯à±o¨ì¨Ã¦Û¦æ­pºâªº±À­«¤ñ¼Æ¾Ú°ò¥»¤W³£¬O®ü¥­­±¼Ð·Ç·Å«×®ðÀ£ÀR¤îª¬ºA¤Uªºµ²ªG¡AµM¦Ó¦b¹ê»Úª¬ªp¤U¡A¤ÞÀº©ó¹ê»Ú­¸¦æ®Éªº±À¤Oªí²{¨ü·Å«×³t«×»P­¸¦æ°ª«×µ¥¦h­«Åܦ]¼vÅT¡A¦A¥[¤W¾Ô¾÷¤ÞÀº¡A¶i®ð¹D¡A¥H¤Î¾÷Åé®ð°Ê³]­p¤W¨ú±Ë¿ï¾Ü¡A¦UºØ¾Ô¾÷¾Ö¦³³Ì¨Î­¸¦æ©Ê¯àªí²{»P±À­«¤ñªº­¸¦æ³t«×°ª«×¥]µ¸½uªº»â°ì½d³ò¤]¤j¦³¤£¦P¡A¦³¨Ç¾÷ºØ¶W§CªÅ¯««iµL¤Ç¡A¨ì¤¤°ªªÅ«K¬O¥ô¤H®_³Îªº¬¡¹v¡]¨Ò¦pÀs±²­·¾Ô¾÷¡AMIG-23µ¥¡^¡A¦³¨Ç¾÷ºØ°ªªÅ·¥³t¤@§ÀÀs¡A§CªÅºC³t¤@±øÂΡ]¦pSR-71¡AMIG-25/31¡AMIRAGE2000µ¥¡^¡A¦³¨Ç¾÷ºØ«h¬O±j½Õ¦b¤¤§CªÅ°ª«×¡A0.8¦Ü1.5°¨»®½d³ò¶¡ªº©Ê¯à³Ì¨Î¤Æ¡]¦pTeen series¡ASu-27¡AMIG-29µ¥¡^¡F¦Ü©ó¯à¤j­P­ÝÅU±q®ü¥­­±¶W§CªÅ¦Ü50,000 ~ 60,000­^¤Ø¥H¤W°ªªÅ¡A±q§C¦¸­µ³t¦Ü1.6~1.8°¨»®©Ê¯àªí²{ªº¤Q¶µ¥þ¯à¾÷¡A¬Oª½¨ì·s¥@¥N¾Ô¾÷¦pF-22A»PTyphoon°Ý¥@«á¤~³¡¥÷¸¨¹ê¤§¨Æ¡C

¦¹¥~±À­«¤ñ¦¹¤@¤u¨ã§¹¥þ©¿²¤ªº¤@¶µ¹ï¾Ô¾÷©Ê¯à¦Ó¨¥¡A¼vÅT¤O»P±À¤O¦P¼Ë­«­nªº¦]¯À¡Gªý¤O¡ã³o¶µÅܦ]¤£¥uÅý±À­«¤ñ©ú©ú¸G¤H¤@¤jºIªºF-14¡þF-111¡þSu-24¡þTornado¡þMIG-23µ¥VGÁl¾Ô¾÷¦b§CªÅ¥þ«á±°­¸¦æ¡Aªý¤O¤j´î®Éªº³t«×»P¥[³t©Ê¯à¥OF-15¡þF-16±æ¹Ð²ö¤Î¡A¤]·¥¥i¯à¬O·s¤@¥N¾Ô¾÷¦p²r¸V»P¼Ú¬wÂù­·µ¥§Y¨Ï¦bªñ¶Zª¯¾Ô¤¤¡A¤]©¹©¹¯à§â±À­«©Ê¯àªí²{¨Ã¤£®zªº¶Ç²Î¾Ô¾÷¡]¦pF-15¡AF-16µ¥¡^À£­Ë¨g¹qªº­«­n­ì¦]¤§¤@¡]¥H»ä­·¾Ô¾÷¬°¨Ò¡A¨ä»s³y°Ó«KÁnºÙ«ô·s¤@¥N®ð°Ê³]­p¤§½ç¡A¨ä­¸¦æªý¤O»P¶Ç²Î¾Ô¾÷¬Û¤ñ¬ù´î§C20%¡^¡C

Toga, ¦v¨k¤T¤Q¤@®Ú¯ó

Edited by - toga on 01/24/2009 12:00:22
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toga
ª©¥D

Tajikistan
12544 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  11:58:36  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send toga a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
©Ò¥H¨Ï¥Î¤@¯ë¹ï¥~¬É¤½§Gªº¡]®ü¥­­±¼Ð·Ç·Å«×®ðÀ£ÀR¤îª¬ºA¤U¡^±À­«¼Æ¾Ú¨Ó¤ñ¸û¿Å¶q¾Ô¾÷¶¡©Ê¯à¤§°µªk¡A¨äºë·Ç¥¿½T«×¦³¦p³æ¾a¬Y¦¸´Á¤¤¦Ò®É¡A¦U¾Ç¥Í¦b°ê¤å¦Ò¸Õ¤W¥j¤åÆ[¤î¿ï¾ÜÃD³¡¤Àªº±o¤Àªí²{¡A«K¸Õ¹Ï¥h¹w¦ô½×Â_¦U¾Ç¥Í¦b¥þ¾Ç¦~¶¡ªº´¼¨|¦¨ÁZ±Æ¦æ.......

Toga, ¦v¨k¤T¤Q¤@®Ú¯ó

Edited by - toga on 01/24/2009 11:58:57
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Steve Su
¸ô¤H¥Ò¤A¤þ

2195 Posts

Posted - 01/24/2009 :  13:09:09  ·|­û¸ê®Æ Send Steve Su a Private Message  ¤Þ¨¥¦^ÂÐ
³Ìªñ¦b½m²ß©ç­¸¾÷ªº§Þ¥©¡A·N¥~µo²{TFE-1042¦³¤£»´ªº±Æ·Ï°ÝÃD¡C
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Edited by - Steve Su on 01/24/2009 13:10:22
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