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Snap
路人甲乙丙
Taiwan
1330 Posts |
 Posted - 01/16/2009 : 12:33:49
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quote:
Originally posted by noblue
反正出去走走也是好事阿！救用敦睦艦隊的方式出海也行阿！就到亞丁灣走走看看嘛！無論發生什麼是都是好事！打贏海盜表示訓練精實，打輸了，表示有改進空間。
船比大陸小，那就派紀德艦出去阿，老美不會看他被打沈吧！
為什麼不會？現在又不是老美的船....而且紀德會被小海盜打沉的話，ROCN直接解散算了。
這幾天看到的新聞裡面最怪的一點是：為什麼這種事情一直都是陸委會(大陸事務)在嚷嚷，而不是外交部(外交)或是國防部(對外軍事)或是內政部(護漁)？最起碼也該是國安會(國家人民安全)吧？要讓人沒有政治聯想都很難....
http://tw.news.yahoo.com/article/url/d/a/090116/58/1d2pb.html |
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Reich
路人甲乙丙
Saint Croix
4918 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 12:34:48
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因為
AIT講話了，所以就很曖昧.....
_________________________________
2. SS-Panzerdivision "Das Reich",
Panzergrenadier Kampfgruppe z.b.V.
http://blog.udn.com/zbv2004 |
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dasha
版主
41537 Posts |
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Reich
路人甲乙丙
Saint Croix
4918 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 13:39:01
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不然這幾年都只能去南太平洋
想去中美洲還很麻煩勒
關鍵還是在於我們與美國私下「橋」的怎樣....
_________________________________
2. SS-Panzerdivision "Das Reich",
Panzergrenadier Kampfgruppe z.b.V.
http://blog.udn.com/zbv2004 |
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James.luo
路人甲乙丙
939 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 14:51:06
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小弟有2問題
請教諸位前輩
1.自中美斷交後 我國海軍有無和美國海軍做過海上加油或補給的操演?
(小弟認為私下應有個案 否則自美購回的軍艦是怎麼開回來的?)
2.萬一我們得自派補給艦 大修的武夷號多久可以整隻裝回去?
(小弟假設海軍應有一機制 在戰時能迅速將正在大修的軍艦緊急投入戰場) |
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dasha
版主
41537 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 15:24:09
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1.沒聽說過,不過不要小看船隻的續行力,我們海軍走太平洋如果安排的停泊點有兩三個時,那是會測試最大速度航行的.當然在太平洋有個優點,你可以乘速度8kts的洋流來回,巡航速度16kts的就會當場變成24kts,wiki查到的續航力就可以立刻增加50%......這就是何以大海軍國都會讓學生先搭帆船實習的原因,利用風利用流讓巡航速度加倍並不難,一次大戰前可是有七八千噸(載貨量)的商船能以21kts航行的.
2.大修要看你是排哪種大修,美國的核動力艦可是有一修至少一年半的那種.我們沒那麼誇張,但是半年以上的大修也是有的,這種加不了多少速,你只能期待有外星科技,或者,其他國家能用40年的船你要10年首次大修期就報廢不用......
吉屋出售
台北市基隆路二段套房,近台大及捷運,附近有黃昏市場,生活機能便利.
http://www.hbhousing.com.tw/web/A002/index.asp?module=search&file=Detail&No=Z087382%20%20%20&AID=A002
台北縣板橋市大觀路一二樓公寓,接近國小至大學各級學校及公車總站,離捷運及板橋車站不遠.
詳情請洽0931043559田小姐 |
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James.luo
路人甲乙丙
939 Posts |
Posted - 01/16/2009 : 16:58:38
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謝謝前輩解惑
難怪海軍要積極爭取
海軍是半個外交官這句話真是一點都沒錯
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Luke-Skywalker
我是老鳥
Taiwan
26649 Posts |
Posted - 01/17/2009 : 14:34:35
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http://n.yam.com/cna/politics/200901/20090117851342.html
派艦亞丁灣？陳肇敏坦承難度很高
中央社╱中央社 2009-01-17 13:17
（中央社記者黃瑞弘台北17日電）台灣是否派軍艦到亞丁灣護航，引起討論。國防部長陳肇敏今天坦承，國軍油補艦還在整修，加上航路沿途都無邦交國，如果派遣軍艦，對後勤補給是一大考驗，難度很高。
國防部今天和媒體記者春節餐敘，針對陸委會之前透露國安相關單位，正研擬是否派遣軍艦到亞丁灣海域護航時，做上述表示。
陳肇敏說，公海海盜是萬國公罪，目前在亞丁灣已有各國的40多艘軍艦，並表明對通過海域的船隻，有需要時會給予支援、保護，外交部也透過各種管道協調之中，如果台灣船隻能實質獲得保護，國軍有無派遣必要，必須進一步評估。
他也指出，目前國軍的油彈補給艦仍在整修中，還未出廠，如果派遣軍艦，對後勤補給是一大考驗，尤其在沿途經過的航路中，都沒有邦交國家，如何獲得油水相關補給，難度很高。
陳肇敏說，國防部在中國大陸決定派遣軍艦到亞丁灣護航後，也評估一旦要派軍艦護航，國軍兵力能否達成任務，國防部也會配合國家的政策繼續進行相關規劃，他相信高層會做出最正確的決定。
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May the Force be with you
President of IMFS(International Military Fans Society) |
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SK2
路人甲乙丙
2341 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 10:47:32
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Quite interesting viewpoint from a foreign blog:
quote:
If it was me, I would have suggested the obvious, that the PLA Navy is escorting a Taiwanese ship because Taiwan doesn't have a warship deployed to do it themselves. China is clearly trying to generate populist propaganda within Taiwan by taking such action, so do something about it.
Most people may not realize this, but the Royal Navy today has 22 warships classified as destroyers and frigates in service. Taiwan has 4 Kidd class destroyers, which by my rating system qualify as 3rd rate battleships, but they also have 22 frigates (8 Perry, 8 Knox, and 6 La Fayette). Taiwan has more surface combatants than the Royal Navy does, and they have the Wu Yi fleet oiler they can use to deploy to Somalia. Why are we empowering their segregationist attitude against the PLAN off the Horn of Africa?
Just tell the good folks running the show in the Republic of China that if the PLA Navy isn't going to be allowed to escort your ships, then send your own warship to escort your ships. Whatever we do, we should not allow the diplomatic class in Taiwan to leverage CTF-151 as an alternative, read competitor, to the PLAN. After all, if CTF-151 isn't about building a relationship with China, India, and regional nations with a maritime security intent, why do it at all?
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Edited by - SK2 on 01/20/2009 10:48:32 |
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rockitten
我是老鳥
Australia
8191 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 12:26:11
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quote:
Originally posted by SK2
Quite interesting viewpoint from a foreign blog:
quote:
If it was me, I would have suggested the obvious, that the PLA Navy is escorting a Taiwanese ship because Taiwan doesn't have a warship deployed to do it themselves. China is clearly trying to generate populist propaganda within Taiwan by taking such action, so do something about it.
Most people may not realize this, but the Royal Navy today has 22 warships classified as destroyers and frigates in service. Taiwan has 4 Kidd class destroyers, which by my rating system qualify as 3rd rate battleships, but they also have 22 frigates (8 Perry, 8 Knox, and 6 La Fayette). Taiwan has more surface combatants than the Royal Navy does, and they have the Wu Yi fleet oiler they can use to deploy to Somalia. Why are we empowering their segregationist attitude against the PLAN off the Horn of Africa?
Just tell the good folks running the show in the Republic of China that if the PLA Navy isn't going to be allowed to escort your ships, then send your own warship to escort your ships. Whatever we do, we should not allow the diplomatic class in Taiwan to leverage CTF-151 as an alternative, read competitor, to the PLAN. After all, if CTF-151 isn't about building a relationship with China, India, and regional nations with a maritime security intent, why do it at all?
So probably that's why AIT announced USN will assist Taiwanese ships immediately after chi na YY about they are escorting Taiwanese ships.
However, even the RAN, which only have 12 frigate do join CTF-152 and will join CTF-151 soon, Taiwanese navy's lack of action do have a really bad image to the international community.........
小貓不會作模型，小貓只愛玩模型；看似小貓玩模型，其實模型玩小貓：
A B 補土白膠條，樹脂改套蝕刻片；凹線凸線凹凸線，乾磨水磨銼刀磨；
水性油性消光漆，乾掃手掃噴槍掃；模型一盒三百幾，零件一堆三千幾；
多買多作進步多，買了不作口水多；花錢耗時傷精神，小貓是隻敗家喵。 |
Edited by - rockitten on 01/20/2009 12:44:09 |
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SK2
路人甲乙丙
2341 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 12:41:26
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quote:
Originally posted by rockitten
So probably that's why AIT announced USN will assist Taiwanese ships immediately after chi na YY about they are escorting Taiwanese ships.
However, even the RAN, which only have 12 frigate, Taiwanese navy's lack of action do have a really bad image to the international community.........
Of course, that really shows the RoCN lack contribution to the International community. It should either provide fund to the CTF-151, or simply as above said, provide a flotilla to the area to escort it's own vessels, as well as regaining dignity of the Country, and the Navy itself.
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Edited by - SK2 on 01/20/2009 12:41:57 |
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Reich
路人甲乙丙
Saint Croix
4918 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 12:47:37
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哪是說喊一喊想去就能去的？
光是武夷號沒法跟著去補給就是個最大的問題，這點是那老外所不知道的
再加上CTF-151裡頭全都是無邦交國
要想替國軍艦隊補給也沒那樣簡單，後續問題可多了
至於國際社會怎樣看，那南韓和日本是不是更該派出更多的船艦？
_________________________________
2. SS-Panzerdivision "Das Reich",
Panzergrenadier Kampfgruppe z.b.V.
http://blog.udn.com/zbv2004 |
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rockitten
我是老鳥
Australia
8191 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 12:51:51
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quote:
Originally posted by SK2
quote:
Originally posted by rockitten
So probably that's why AIT announced USN will assist Taiwanese ships immediately after chi na YY about they are escorting Taiwanese ships.
However, even the RAN, which only have 12 frigate, Taiwanese navy's lack of action do have a really bad image to the international community.........
Of course, that really shows the RoCN lack contribution to the International community. It should either provide fund to the CTF-151, or simply as above said, provide a flotilla to the area to escort it's own vessels, as well as regaining dignity of the Country, and the Navy itself.
The problem is, I always have a feeling that the attitude among those Taiwanese politicians is that they always "expect" US's assistance but always don't want to pay......
And in this case, it is more complex as what it says is that, CTF-151 can't escort Taiwanese ships directly, so Taiwanese navy need to be shown-up there. So it is not an issue just "sponsoring" CTF-151 can be solve....
小貓不會作模型，小貓只愛玩模型；看似小貓玩模型，其實模型玩小貓：
A B 補土白膠條，樹脂改套蝕刻片；凹線凸線凹凸線，乾磨水磨銼刀磨；
水性油性消光漆，乾掃手掃噴槍掃；模型一盒三百幾，零件一堆三千幾；
多買多作進步多，買了不作口水多；花錢耗時傷精神，小貓是隻敗家喵。 |
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SK2
路人甲乙丙
2341 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 12:55:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Reich
哪是說喊一喊想去就能去的？
光是武夷號沒法跟著去補給就是個最大的問題，這點是那老外所不知道的
再加上CTF-151裡頭全都是無邦交國
要想替國軍艦隊補給也沒那樣簡單，後續問題可多了
至於國際社會怎樣看，那南韓和日本是不是更該派出更多的船艦？
Of course not just vow and go, but so far Taiwan is the only country to complain another country's warship escorting their vessels could be a problem.
No matter the CTF-151 or the other navies, fooling around Somilia isn't just for anti-pirates, they are staying there for maintaing and warming the relationships of the navies as well as the countries also. The real voice outside isn't place the navy or not, but don't mess it with politics instead. |
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Reich
路人甲乙丙
Saint Croix
4918 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2009 : 13:09:34
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現在派出去，要是老共藉機發牢騷什麼之類的
解決後續問題可沒那樣簡單
所以大老闆AIT才會講話
現在正值美國新舊大老闆交接之際，他的手下們可沒人想讓兩岸又起無謂爭端
還不如先出來講話....
_________________________________
2. SS-Panzerdivision "Das Reich",
Panzergrenadier Kampfgruppe z.b.V.
http://blog.udn.com/zbv2004 |
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rockitten
我是老鳥
Australia
8191 Posts |
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軍師
路人甲乙丙
Taiwan
970 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 23:10:42
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我是有圖有真相的人，雖然圖都是網路上的
這個其實可以公開po，補充一點東西
其實海航自己就可以獨力執行任務 不一定要陸、空軍派機
S-70有幾個地方可以掛機槍
是最平常的舷窗
空軍的s-70是有那個安裝孔的
雖然海航的是封住的但是其實還是可以開
或是像澳洲這樣放也可以
而火箭系統其實不一定要ESSS(external stores support system外部存儲支援系統)才能用
其實只要能掛上加上點火控制盒及線束就可以直接用
並沒有那樣難
而所謂esss的老美動手腳也只是將esss內部的通用控制線束拆掉
拆掉的用意是讓你台灣軍方只能裝副油箱而不能像下圖那樣裝飛彈類武器
而像飛彈類的就比較麻煩，因為還要許多射擊控制盒
裝回線束很難嗎？難的只是控制盒老美不賣，但是偷吃步的方法其實很多的......
圖示兩種esss的型態，就是我們常說的就是高低派龍
空軍的
海航的
老美的
看上兩圖比對就知
誰說海航的不能裝地獄火？
地獄火都能裝了，火箭不行嘛？
東西軍方都有，只是分散在陸海空三軍的直升機部隊裡面而已....
要不要能不能敢不敢就只是軍方一句話而已，剩下的只是安裝技術、調校以及訓練的問題罷了。
以上圖引自
www.airforceworld.com
www.airliners.net
www.ausairpower.net
www.inetres.com
www.operations.mod.uk
www.taiwanairpower.org
www.wikimedia.org
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In the church, they say to forgive.
Forgiveness is between bad guy and God.
It was my job to arrange the meeting.
But after I retired from that job,
my new job is arranging tools which used for that meeting.
51R TS 6553 2254
MEMBER OF IMFS
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27625 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 23:14:47
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就我所知，老共沒有一艘驅逐艦有直昇機機庫（只有甲板），這時候就要推西方
巡防艦的先進。
－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》 |
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dasha
版主
41537 Posts |
Posted - 01/21/2009 : 23:32:11
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quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
就我所知，老共沒有一艘驅逐艦有直昇機機庫（只有甲板），這時候就要推西方
巡防艦的先進。
老共自己造的船還是有那種可以裝直升機的艙間存在,但問題是那種艙間有沒有直升機維修能力?以及實際上有沒有經常帶直升機一起作業?
西方在軍艦上放直升機也是經過好幾個階段的,一開始就是甲板或是簡單的遮罩,然後發現這樣著艦難保護難才開始加大,有的就弄伸縮式機庫;接著直升機可以在更惡劣環境飛行時,甲板與著艦保護措施就要更加強化,而且必須要不能漏水不會熱脹冷縮就打不開,變成大型固定甲板與大型機庫;最後這機庫就加上維修設施變成小工廠,而可以保證長期固定作業......老共目前還在演化中.
吉屋出售
台北市基隆路二段套房,近台大及捷運,附近有黃昏市場,生活機能便利.
http://www.hbhousing.com.tw/web/A002/index.asp?module=search&file=Detail&No=Z087382%20%20%20&AID=A002
台北縣板橋市大觀路一二樓公寓,接近國小至大學各級學校及公車總站,離捷運及板橋車站不遠.
詳情請洽0931043559田小姐 |
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ASMP
路人甲乙丙
1285 Posts |
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Luke-Skywalker
我是老鳥
Taiwan
26649 Posts |
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kumasukiyaki
路人甲乙丙
1616 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 01:10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by dasha
最後這機庫就加上維修設施變成小工廠,而可以保證長期固定作業
是不是船上帶數控機床，能自造零件？
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白痴和天才本來是兄弟倆，白痴的智商是天才的10倍，後來他們倆在人世降生。因為白痴的智商比人類高的實在太多，所以沒有人能聽懂他說的話，從此白痴變成愚蠢的代名詞，而天才的智商只比人類高一點，所以變成聰明的代名詞。 |
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dasha
版主
41537 Posts |
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ian125
我是老鳥
8062 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 14:43:40
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quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
就我所知，老共沒有一艘驅逐艦有直昇機機庫（只有甲板），這時候就要推西方
巡防艦的先進。
旅大有一艘有裝機庫+甲板(似乎只能裝一架)
052C能裝兩架、052B跟現代級裝一架
(巡防艦我忘了能不能裝)
不過就跟大俠大說的一樣，有空間歸有空間，能不能整備嘛...
============================
你知道嗎？所謂的IRBM的速度是
秒 速 五 公 里
以如此的速度飛行，能迎擊嗎...
2010年全球上映(大誤) |
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SK2
路人甲乙丙
2341 Posts |
Posted - 01/22/2009 : 14:51:02
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quote:
Originally posted by dasha
自造零件那大部分是不可能的,又不是把原廠工人帶上去.但是有起重機與備份零件儲藏庫,可以在房間內拆螺旋槳引擎下來看一看換一換,那就差很多了.
Or it would be better to say it's an aircraft/helicopter hanger in the sea.
What the S-70C(M)-1/2 currently lack is the imaging device, which was available on the S-70C-6, as Visual ID is quite important for anti-pirate operations. If the RoCN think that it would be hard to offload the ASW equipments on the Thunderhawks, then why not have a mixed fleet, equipping the PFG-1101 with one C-6 and one C(M)-1/2 each? Let the C(M)-1/2 to map the activities of the vessels by radar, then dispatch C-6 for the suspicious ones. |
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標題 |
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我們台灣也派軍艦去打海盜可行嗎
