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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
 Posted - 02/24/2015 : 23:25:49
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| 这不算战争罪行吧？可以讨论吧？ |
Edited by - 冗丙 on 10/18/2015 13:44:07 |
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2015 : 02:09:53
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http://www.exordio.com/1939-1945/codex/Documentos/report-49-USA-orig.html
UNITED STATES
OFFICE OF WAR INFORMATION
Psychological Warfare Team
Attached to
U.S. Army Forces
India-Burma Theater
APO 689
Japanese Prisoner
of War Interrogation
Report No. 49.
Place interrogated: Ledo Stockade
Date Interrogated: Aug. 20 - Sept. 10, 1944
Date of Report: October 1, 1944
By: T/3 Alex Yorichi
Prisoners: 20 Korean Comfort Girls
Date of Capture: August 10, 1944
Date of Arrival: August 15, 1944
at Stockade
PREFACE
This report is based on the information obtained from the interrogation of twenty Korean "comfort girls" and two Japanese civilians captured around the tenth of August, 1944 in the mopping up operations after the fall of Myitkyin a in Burma.
The report shows how the Japanese recruited these Korean "comfort girls", the conditions under which they lived and worked, their relations with and reaction to the Japanese soldier, and their understanding of the military situation.
A "comfort girl" is nothing more than a prostitute or "professional camp follower" attached to the Japanese Army for the benefit of the soldiers. The word "comfort girl" is peculiar to the Japanese. Other reports show the "comfort girls" have been found wherever it was necessary for the Japanese Army to fight. This report however deals only with the Korean "comfort girls" recruited by the Japanese and attached to their Army in Burma. The Japanese are reported to have shipped some 703 of these girls to Burma in 1942.
RECRUITING;
Early in May of 1942 Japanese agents arrived in Korea for the purpose of enlisting Korean girls for "comfort service" in newly conquered Japanese territories in Southeast Asia. The nature of this "service" was not specified but it was assumed to be work connected with visiting the wounded in hospitals, rolling bandages, and generally making the soldiers happy. The inducement used by these agents was plenty of money, an opportunity to pay off the family debts, easy work, and the prospect of a new life in a new land, Singapore. On the basis of these false representations many girls enlisted for overseas duty and were rewarded with an advance of a few hundred yen.
The majority of the girls were ignorant and uneducated, although a few had been connected with "oldest profession on earth" before. The contract they signed bound them to Army regulations and to war for the "house master " for a period of from six months to a year depending on the family debt for which they were advanced ...
Approximately 800 of these girls were recruited in this manner and they landed with their Japanese "house master " at Rangoon around August 20th, 1942. They came in groups of from eight to twenty-two. From here they were distributed to various parts of Burma, usually to fair sized towns near Japanese Army camps.
Eventually four of these units reached the Myitkyina. They were, Kyoei, Kinsui, Bakushinro, and Momoya. The Kyoei house was called the "Maruyama Club", but was changed when the girls reached Myitkyina as Col.Maruyama, commander of the garrison at Myitkyina, objected to the similarity to his name.
PERSONALITY;
The interrogations show the average Korean "comfort girl" to be about twenty-five years old, uneducated, childish, and selfish. She is not pretty either by Japanese of Caucasian standards. She is inclined to be egotistical and likes to talk about herself. Her attitude in front of strangers is quiet and demure, but she "knows the wiles of a woman." She claims to dislike her "profession" and would rather not talk either about it or her family. Because of the kind treatment she received as a prisoner from American soldiers at Myitkyina and Ledo, she feels that they are more emotional than Japanese soldiers. She is afraid of Chinese and Indian troops.
LIVING AND WORKING CONDITIONS;
In Myitkyina the girls were usually quartered in a large two story house (usually a school building) with a separate room for each girl. There each girl lived, slept, and transacted business. In Myitkina their food was prepared by and purchased from the "house master" as they received no regular ration from the Japanese Army. They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.
While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping.
PRIOR SYSTEM;
The conditions under which they transacted business were regulated by the Army, and in congested areas regulations were strictly enforced. The Army found it necessary in congested areas to install a system of prices, priorities, and schedules for the various units operating in a particular areas. According to interrogations the average system was as follows:
1. Soldiers
10 AM to 5 PM
1.50 yen
20 to 30 minutes
2. NCOs
5 PM to 9 PM
3.00 yen
30 to 40 minutes
3. Officers
9 PM to 12 PM
5.00 yen
30 to 40 minutes
These were average prices in Central Burma. Officers were allowed to stay overnight for twenty yen. In Myitkyina Col. Maruyama slashed the prices to almost one-half of the average price.
SCHEDULES;
The soldiers often complained about congestion in the houses. In many situations they were not served and had to leave as the army was very strict about overstaying. In order to overcome this problem the Army set aside certain days for certain units. Usually two men from the unit for the day were stationed at the house to identify soldiers. A roving MP was also on hand to keep order. Following is the schedule used by the "Kyoei" house for the various units of the 18th Division while at Naymyo.
Sunday
18th Div. Hdqs. Staff
Monday
Cavalry
Tuesday
Engineers
Wednesday
Day off and weekly physical exam.
Thursday
Medics
Friday
Mountain artillery
Saturday
Transport
Officers were allowed to come seven nights a week. The girls complained that even with the schedule congestion was so great that they could not care for all guests, thus causing ill feeling among many of the soldiers.
Soldiers would come to the house, pay the price and get tickets of cardboard about two inches square with the prior on the left side and the name of the house on the other side. Each soldier's identity or rank was then established after which he "took his turn in line". The girls were allowed the prerogative of refusing a customer. This was often done if the person were too drunk.
PAY AND LIVING CONDITIONS;
The "house master" received fifty to sixty per cent of the girls' gross earnings depending on how much of a debt each girl had incurred when she signed her contract. This meant that in an average month a girl would gross about fifteen hundred yen. She turned over seven hundred and fifty to the "master". Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls by charging them high prices for food and other articles.
In the latter part of 1943 the Army issued orders that certain girls who had paid their debt could return home. Some of the girls were thus allowed to return to Korea.
The interrogations further show that the health of these girls was good. They were well supplied with all types of contraceptives, and often soldiers would bring their own which had been supplied by the army. They were well trained in looking after both themselves and customers in the matter of hygiene. A regular Japanese Army doctor visited the houses once a week and any girl found diseased was given treatment, secluded, and eventually sent to a hospital. This same procedure was carried on within the ranks of the Army itself, but it is interesting to note that a soldier did not lose pay during the period he was confined.
REACTIONS TO JAPANESE SOLDIERS;
In their relations with the Japanese officers and men only two names of any consequence came out of interrogations. They were those of Col. Maruyama, commander of the garrison at Myitkyina and Maj. Gen.Mizukami, who brought in reinforcements. The two were exact opposites. The former was hard, selfish and repulsive with no consideration for his men; the latter a good, kind man and a fine soldier, with the utmost consideration for those who worked under him. The Colonel was a constant habitué of the houses while the General was never known to have visited them. With the fall of Myitkyina, Col. Maruyama supposedly deserted while Gen. Mizukami committed suicide because he could not evacuate the men.
SOLDIERS REACTIONS;
The average Japanese soldier is embarrassed about being seen in a "comfort house" according to one of the girls who said, "when the place is packed he is apt to be ashamed if he has to wait in line for his turn". However there were numerous instances of proposals of marriage and in certain cases marriages actually took place.
All the girls agreed that the worst officers and men who came to see them were those who were drunk and leaving for the front the following day. But all likewise agreed that even though very drunk the Japanese soldier never discussed military matters or secrets with them. Though the girls might start the conversation about some military matter the officer or enlisted man would not talk, but would in fact "scold us for discussing such un-lady like subjects. Even Col. Maruyama when drunk would never discuss such matters."
The soldiers would often express how much they enjoyed receiving magazines, letters and newspapers from home. They also mentioned the receipt of "comfort bags" filled with canned goods, magazines, soap, handkerchiefs, toothbrush, miniature doll, lipstick, and wooden clothes. The lipstick and cloths were feminine and the girls couldn't understand why the people at home were sending such articles. They speculated that the sender could only have had themselves or the "native girls".
MILITARY SITUATION;
"In the initial attack on Myitleyna and the airstrip about two hundred Japanese died in battle, leaving about two hundred to defend the town. Ammunition was very low.
"Col. Maruyama dispersed his men. During the following days the enemy were shooting haphazardly everywhere. It was a waste since they didn't seem to aim at any particular thing. The Japanese soldiers on the other hand had orders to fire one shot at a time and only when they were sure of a hit."
Before the enemy attacked on the west airstrip, soldiers stationed around Myitkyina were dispatched elsewhere, to storm the Allied attack in the North and West. About four hundred men were left behind, largely from the 114th Regiment. Evidently Col. Maruyama did not expect the town to be attacked. Later Maj. Gen. Mizukami of the 56th Division brought in reinforcements of more than two regiments but these were unable to hold the town.
It was the consensus among the girls that Allied bombings were intense and frightening and because of them they spent most of their last days in foxholes. One or two even carried on work there. The comfort houses were bombed and several of the girls were wounded and killed.
RETREAT AND CAPTURE;
The story of the retreat and final capture of the "comfort girls" is somewhat vague and confused in their own minds. From various reports it appears that the following occurred: on the night of July 31st a party of sixty three people including the "comfort girls" of three houses (Bakushinro was merged with Kinsui), families, and helpers, started across the Irrawaddy River in small boats. They eventually landed somewhere near Waingmaw, They stayed there until August 4th, but never entered Waingmaw. From there they followed in the path of a group of soldiers until August 7th when there was a skirmish with the enemy and the party split up. The girls were ordered to follow the soldiers after three-hour interval. They did this only to find themselves on the bank of a river with no sign of the soldiers or any mea ns of crossing. They remained in a nearby house until August 10th when they were captured by Kaahin soldiers led by an English officer. They were taken to Myitleyina and then to the Ledo stockade where the interrogation which form the basis of this report took place.
REQUESTS
None of the girls appeared to have heard the loudspeaker used at Myitkyina but very did overhear the soldiers mention a "radio broadcast."
They asked that leaflets telling of the capture of the "comfort girls" should not be used for it would endanger the lives of other girls if the Army knew of their capture. They did think it would be a good idea to utilize the fact of their capture in any droppings planned for Korea.
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/25/2015 : 23:56:22
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这是美军缅甸慰安妇的审讯报告。有以下几点小弟觉得值得特别拿出来。
第一， 慰安妇是妓女。
第二， 慰安妇的收入相当的高。
第三， 慰安妇的地位不低。受到相当的保护。有常规身体检查并使用避孕套。并可以拒绝与日军发生性关系。
第四， 慰安妇在当地的生活可以用奢华来形容。
第五， 慰安妇的征召由日本和朝鲜的民间机构来担当。当中存在欺骗行为。不过从美军审讯官的角度这些被召来做慰安妇的女子基本可以用现在的大龄剩女来描述。不仅长的不好看，而且以当时的标准年龄略为偏大。
第六， 慰安妇的征召来源多半是未受过良好教育或者本就从事妓女职业。
从这些特征来看，基本完全颠覆了中韩对慰安妇的描述。中韩说很多慰安妇是被强征。以当时的标准，出钱买不知道算不算强征。说违背妇女意志，但那个年代，在东亚，子女都被视为父母的个人财产，父母拥有支配权。在当时经济发展水平下，买卖人口也是司空见惯。因此这么来看，其实日本做的并不过分。而且，日本政府军队并不直接出面征召，基本还是使用市场经济手段以经济利益吸引。政府和军队只是允许这样的生意进行，发些许可证。而从慰安妇的来源来看，大部分也是属于本就被社会抛弃的那一部分。相对而言对社会的冲击是比较低的。
慰安妇与日军的关系与普通的妓女嫖客之类的并没有很大的区别。日军对慰安妇基本是尊重的。至少从慰安妇角度，感觉好过中国及印度军队。
而中国方面宣传有40万慰安妇的说法着实令人吃惊。不记得有大量中国慰安妇前往其他国家的纪录。即便只算20万，在国内。除关东军外，侵华日军最高峰时不过100万众。而根据中国方面的说法，慰安妇每天接客几十次甚至上百次。就以20次算。每天要打400万炮。平均到每个人头上，日军每人每天要打4炮。这个似乎远远超出满足性欲的需求，反倒是让人感觉日军的公粮压力相当大。从日军的收入来看，这似乎也是不太可能的状况。中国方面似乎是把所有和日军发生过性行为的女子都称为慰安妇。这个逻辑让小弟感到有些奇怪。很多中国妇女其实是日军强奸罪行的受害者。受害者向施害者讨要公道这本没什么不妥。而且以强奸指控讨要公道本来就理直气壮。但中国方面现在的做法是先给这些受害者套上个妓女的名头然后去讨要公道。这就让小弟觉得不可思议。本来是良家妇女受欺凌，为了讨要公道反倒先把自己打扮成妓女。这个这个的思维方式实在很难理解。
从动机上来看，日军建立慰安妇制度的原因也是为了减少在占领区的强奸行为以及由此导致的可能的性病以及情报问题。日军当然考虑了自己的利益，不过客观上主观上也是有利于被占领区老百姓的事情。作为韩国而言，自己国家的女人被拉到国外去满足日军性欲替其他国家挡精液确实可以理解成某种程度的利益损失（但这个有争议，因为慰安妇是拿钱的），其言行有一定的原因可以理解；但中国在慰安妇这件事上其实受到的损害要远远小于得到的好处。现在纯粹是出于打击日本的政治目的炒作这个事件就让人感觉有点无聊了。
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tongmenghui
新手上路
232 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2015 : 17:34:58
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如此美好的“职业”，想必你母亲和尊夫人一定乐意加入的吧！
（PS：以此兄这样的思维模式，我这样说应该不算侮辱吧！但是，以本论坛其他人的道德观，我只能说，希望不要封我的号。） |
Edited by - tongmenghui on 02/26/2015 17:35:25 |
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 02:11:43
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quote:
Originally posted by tongmenghui
如此美好的“职业”，想必你母亲和尊夫人一定乐意加入的吧！
（PS：以此兄这样的思维模式，我这样说应该不算侮辱吧！但是，以本论坛其他人的道德观，我只能说，希望不要封我的号。）
以慰安妇的招募状况，底层无产阶级尤其是高龄恐龙自然贡献最大（坛上某些共粉不要自动对号入座噢）。很简单，但凡有点姿色的都嫁了。财政上面也不会那么的吃紧。到了欠一屁股债还嫁不出去的地步，那这个社会地位和人品就低到很悲催啦。
现在这年头讲究人权，恐龙也是人。不过记得吴宗宪曾经说过恐龙被强奸是一种福利哈。咱们不说是福利吧至少可以算废物利用。那年头农村都早婚，女生17-18岁是普遍的适婚年龄。超过20岁的已经属于剩了。到了23岁都嫁不出去，那基本也就找不到什么好人家。是整个社会的淘汰品。所以我之前一直说日本的这种做法，是以最低的社会成本达成目的。当然具体是否达成可以探讨。
慰安妇以韩国女人居多，实在没看出中国人为什么要在这个问题上义愤填膺的理由。当然，被兲朝洗脑了以后那是另说。
中共出版过日本左翼的相关慰安妇的作品“随军慰安妇”。根据书中的描述，湖北女子干柴烈火。处女时代还比较重贞操，一旦开苞，热情似火。皇军大头兵自然也不满足于成天在韩国恐龙身上发泄，这到底谁爽还不一定。多花点钱到外面打野炮，选择又多，价廉物美以至于上层三令五申也禁不住的。
说到道德，尊严这种东西都要建立在物质基础上。命都保不住了，还有什么尊严可谈？到了老爸老妈要卖儿卖女的地步，压根没有道德尊严这些概念。
不过你很好的为我们展示了中国大陆人的道德水平。
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27657 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 06:08:18
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整理一下日本保守派/右派方面對從軍慰安婦的說法：
1.從軍慰安婦在當時是合法的軍妓。
2.從軍慰安婦有管理制度，對從業員支付報酬、提供健康檢查，業務之餘並沒有限制、侵害其人身自由。
3.慰安婦業務是由軍方委託民間業者執行。
4.沒有任何歷史證據顯示日本政府、軍方等官方單位，在自國領地內（包含朝鮮、台灣）強徵、拐賣婦女從事慰安婦。
5.慰安婦從業員來源，若有部分民間業者妄為強徵、拐賣等人口販賣情事，日本政府、軍方不負直接責任。
6.部分官兵在戰地與業者勾結從事非法人口販賣等軍人犯罪行為，另有依法懲處。
7.依《日韓基本條約》、《中日聯合聲明》等戰後協定，日本政府已不向中國、韓國的戰爭中個人單位受害者負賠償責任。
（以上非本人立場）
quote:
分隔線
講到這問題，應該要指出的事情是，非法販賣人口，又特別是拐賣婦女從事賣春業務，在和平社會也有，中國、台灣都有。平日這類新聞時有見報，但難得引起社會注目，很少聽說群眾集體對此義憤填膺。
因為各國國情、歷史不同，賣春業在若干國家、時代是合法的，以前台灣也有這類合法軍妓、公娼制度。
要反對的應該是非法賣春業、侵害人權的販賣人口、拐賣婦女非自願從事賣春，等行為。
舉例來說，以下這類行為就是應該要反對的：
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http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/headline/20141213/36264384/
拐外籍女當性奴 1天接客13人
人蛇設密道 60支監視器軟禁被害人
2014年12月13日
被迫賣淫的女子，向專勤隊員泣訴遭對方軟禁、毆打、強迫賣淫的過程。翻攝畫面
【黃靖文╱新北報導】新北市專勤隊前天破獲一起專門誘騙越南、印尼籍女子下海賣淫的人蛇集團，該集團不僅將監視器主機設於台中遙控躲避查緝，板橋的工作室還把樓梯改建設密道，躲避警方的查緝，經過長達半年的蒐證監聽才順利破獲，並救出4名被迫下海賣淫的逃逸女外勞。
（略）
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http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/international/20150113/36324349/
賭王姪操控2千妓 撈16億
澳門5星酒店內賣淫 上銬囂張不屑
2015年01月13日
九十六名賣淫女昨被警方帶往檢察機關應訊時，紛紛拿起衣物遮住面容。
香港《蘋果日報》
【大陸中心╱綜合報導】澳門上周六破獲自1999年回歸中國後最大規模賣淫集團，首腦竟是澳門賭王何鴻燊（燊音同深）的姪子、澳門葡京酒店行政董事何猷倫。《澳門日報》昨報導，這個與酒店勾結的賣淫集團，旗下有2400名賣淫女子，不法獲利至少4億澳門元（約16億元台幣）。澳門葡京酒店為五星級賭場型酒店，由澳門旅遊娛樂公司持有，何鴻燊家族為大股東。
（略）
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http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/international/20150208/36377559/
央視男主播 陪睡20官夫人
審訊嗆握有淫片 個個年紀能當媽
2015年02月08日
【大陸中心╱綜合外電報導】先前盛傳中國中央電視台為高官的「後宮」，9成女主播被迫陪睡，現更傳出連男主播都成「公共情夫」。美國中文媒體《明鏡郵報》前天披露，去年7月遭當局帶走調查的型男主播芮成鋼，曾與至少20多名高官夫人上床，女方普遍大他20至30歲，芮還在審訊時嗆說，他持有與夫人們翻雲覆雨的影片，荒淫內幕令人瞠目結舌。
（略）
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http://www.appledaily.com.tw/realtimenews/article/international/20141110/503810/
少女受騙賣淫 每天要接客10幾次
2014年11月10日21:55
中國江蘇省撫州李先生上周張貼招租訊息時，有2名少女悄悄接近，要他幫忙，當地記者暗訪發現一誘騙少女賣淫集團。
荊楚網今天報導，向李先生求助的少女分別為小玲與小莉，來自貴州，今年18歲，原先應徵KTV服務生，不料身分證被沒收，再被帶到江西東鄉縣，接著強逼她們接客，若不從就毆打，還威脅少女不准逃跑，否則拍裸照並殺死少女全家。
（略）
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http://gate.sinovision.net:82/gate/big5/news.sinovision.net/society/201407/00302926.htm
實拍中國妓女村：一人一天接待13個客人隨時擔心得性病和懷孕
時間: 2014-7-22 14:12
紀實攝影是殘酷的藝術，也需要身在其中做個冷眼旁觀的人，有人為趙鐵林照片也爭議過，有的説他傷害了這些姑娘，有的説他真實地表現了低層的現狀。
（略）
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－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》 |
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冗丙
版主
Taiwan
15848 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 07:56:56
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為何這類文件甚少有中方簽字??而美軍文件是否達到主客觀等等參考的標準??
當年有美軍通曉湖南等方言可與婦人溝通??駐印軍翻譯官偕同翻譯與偵查??
若無法能取得公平公正的說詞兩相對照時，建議還是收斂些~
忠義衛飯筒~剽悍吃燒肉~~
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 08:13:04
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quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
整理一下日本保守派/右派方面對從軍慰安婦的說法：
1.從軍慰安婦在當時是合法的軍妓。
2.從軍慰安婦有管理制度，對從業員支付報酬、提供健康檢查，業務之餘並沒有限制、侵害其人身自由。
3.慰安婦業務是由軍方委託民間業者執行。
4.沒有任何歷史證據顯示日本政府、軍方等官方單位，在自國領地內（包含朝鮮、台灣）強徵、拐賣婦女從事慰安婦。
5.慰安婦從業員來源，若有部分民間業者妄為強徵、拐賣等人口販賣情事，日本政府、軍方不負直接責任。
6.部分官兵在戰地與業者勾結從事非法人口販賣等軍人犯罪行為，另有依法懲處。
7.依《日韓基本條約》、《中日聯合聲明》等戰後協定，日本政府已不向中國、韓國的戰爭中個人單位受害者負賠償責任。
这个恐怕不仅仅是日本保守派/右派的论点。小弟前面贴的美军的审讯报告证实了上述多项论点。其实日韩对慰安妇的定义并没有很大差别。认知的差别主要在于是否算强征，是否应该赔偿上。中国的那些所谓学者对慰安妇的定义本身就不对。说到最根本，慰安妇本就是日语词汇，那根据日本一般理解的定义是恰当的。在慰安妇定义问题上日本左派好像也没有比较不同的认知。
至于强征是有的，比如那个在美国国会作证的大河南慰安妇，但从比例上来说她那样的情况倒是极少数。而且她的证词也证实一起被俘的河南妇女后来因为缺乏食物也志愿充当慰安妇。当然，可以说日军乘人之危，不过也是诱导而不是直接使用武力。所以这部分人是否算强征会有争议。
如果从因果逻辑来研究，即便慰安妇认定当时是被骗或者被强征下海，那求赔偿的对象也应该是骗她强迫她的人以及卖她的人也就是中介和自己的父母。从那个角度也怪不上日本政府，军队和士兵啊。日本政府和军队是管理者，军人是消费者。有听说过和嫖客打完炮隔几十年求赔偿的吗？如果说是管理责任那更搞笑，你在淘宝上买了水货能控告中共政府管理不当纵容骗子吗？这种案件没有任何的法理依据啊。
不过即便如此，日本的态度还是没的说阿，专门开设了亚洲妇女基金给慰安妇财政赔偿。德国在欧洲也有军妓也有强奸，强迫妇女卖淫的罪行。从来没听说勇于承认错误的德国人开设什么欧洲妇女基金赔偿军妓啊。怎么看日本的表现都是很诚恳啊，至少不输德国啊。
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 08:18:54
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quote:
Originally posted by 冗丙
為何這類文件甚少有中方簽字??而美軍文件是否達到主客觀等等參考的標準??
當年有美軍通曉湖南等方言可與婦人溝通??駐印軍翻譯官偕同翻譯與偵查??
若無法能取得公平公正的說詞兩相對照時，建議還是收斂些~
忠義衛飯筒~剽悍吃燒肉~~
报告出自1944年。当时美帝还在与皇军激战，没有任何必要替皇军皇国粉饰太平。
至于湖南小弟指的是随军慰安妇一书。该书为日本左派所著，符合党国舆论导向因此得而在大陆出版。日左貌似也没必要提天皇，皇军擦屁股吧？而且能在左岸出版本身就说明倾向性。
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cwchang2100
我是老鳥
Cayman Islands
17243 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 09:08:03
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建議諸君仔細閱讀原文.
其實原文並無如此偏頗,翻譯時有斷章取義之嫌,沒有翻出全貌,所以才有這樣的爭議.
Manfred君的翻譯,和美帝此報告原意相距甚遠.
美帝有躺著也中槍的冤情.....
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這些秘密話語來自活著的耶穌，由迪迪摩斯•猶大•多馬記錄。
他說：「任何人發現了這些話的意義，將不會嚐到死亡的滋味。」
多馬福音第1節 |
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Clancy Asimov
我是菜鳥
Hong Kong
319 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 10:31:34
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quote:
Originally posted by cwchang2100
建議諸君仔細閱讀原文.
其實原文並無如此偏頗,翻譯時有斷章取義之嫌,沒有翻出全貌,所以才有這樣的爭議.
Manfred君的翻譯,和美帝此報告原意相距甚遠.
美帝有躺著也中槍的冤情.....
而且原文只是調查20名韩籍慰安妇在印缅戰區的經歷，是否可以推以廣之視為全太平洋區的情況甚有疑問。
不接受大陸出版物沒問題，不過海外對慰安妇問題的研究甚多，基本上都不支持日本保守派的說法:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/opinion/comfort-women-and-japans-war-on-truth.html?_r=0
http://www.awf.or.jp/e4/un-01.html
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/ps/korea/comfort_women.pdf
http://library.hku.hk/search~S6?/X Comfort%20Women &searchscope=6&Da=&Db=&SORT=D/X Comfort%20Women &searchscope=6&Da=&Db=&SORT=D&SUBKEY= Comfort Women /1%2C402%2C402%2CB/frameset&FF=X Comfort%20Women &searchscope=6&Da=&Db=&SORT=D&2%2C2%2C
The comfort women : sexual violence and postcolonial memory in Korea and Japan / C. Sarah Soh.
IMPRINT Chicago : University of Chicago Press, 2008.
http://library.hku.hk/search~S6?/XComfort Women&searchscope=6&SORT=DZ/XComfort Women&searchscope=6&SORT=DZ&SUBKEY=Comfort Women/1,402,402,B/frameset&FF=XComfort Women&searchscope=6&SORT=DZ&45,45,?save=b4074798
East Asia's haunted present : historical memories and the resurgence of nationalism / edited by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa and Kazuhiko Togo.
IMPRINT Westport, Conn. : Praeger Security International, 2008. |
Edited by - Clancy Asimov on 02/27/2015 10:34:05 |
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27657 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 10:42:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Clancy Asimov
而且原文只是調查20名韩籍慰安妇在印缅戰區的經歷，是否可以推以廣之視為全太平洋區的情況甚有疑問。
不接受大陸出版物沒問題，不過海外對慰安妇問題的研究甚多，基本上都不支持日本保守派的說法:
西文資料大部分調查太平洋戰區的狀況，事實上包含中國戰線在內，的確在戰區的日軍官兵姦淫擄掠跟人口買賣犯罪頻發。
要注意的是，因為慰安婦問題跟日本對立最嚴重的南韓，戰爭時期是日本領地，所以日本保守派堅持的一個論點就是「日本政府沒有在自國領土上公然販賣自國人口」。所以他們堅決反對來自南韓的慰安婦強徵說，而且目前歷史研究的確沒有確實的證據可以證實日本政府在朝鮮半島上有強徵婦女。
法理上要注意的一點是，他們的論點是政府、軍方等官方單位沒有公然進行這類行為。其他民間業者、少部分官兵的脫序行為，政府不負直接責任。
這個法律理論跟五角大廈雇用民間保全協助軍方業務，若民間保全有非法行為，美國政府不負直接責任，這些民間保全另有美國法律懲罰。或者美軍官兵犯罪，會由美國軍法審判。（當然實務上因為戰地無法可管跟蒐證困難，懲罰多半輕微）
荷蘭等國方面指控部分日軍官兵在佔領區姦淫擄掠販賣人口的案件，在戰犯審判時就確實有立證、審判，也有人被抓去關或判死。這方面日本保守派只是故意避而不談，但沒有公然否認。他們的主要論爭對手是南韓。
至於中國方面跟日本打了八年，國土上的確有很多日軍官兵這類姦淫擄掠販賣人口犯罪行為（事實上日軍擴大從軍慰安婦制度的原因之一，就是在中國戰線強姦案件頻發）。但由於中國自己也處在內戰狀態，中國民兵很多也跟盜匪沒啥兩樣，姦淫擄掠販賣人口搞不好比日軍還凶狠。且二戰結束後馬上繼續自己打內戰，這類犯罪早已蒐證困難，加以ROC、PRC分兩邊之後的政治問題，政府放棄請求賠償權利，這類案件的個人單位被害者則難以確實立證被埋沒在歷史中了。
這整個問題的癥結在於，日本保守派的主張是，法理上當賣春業合法時，有問題的是「非法強迫推人入火坑」，而非賣春業本身，所以不能指控政府開放賣春業是錯的。至於「非法強迫推人入火坑」是Case by Case的少數人犯罪行為，政府不負直接責任。
南韓的問題是他們想一竿子打翻一船人主張「開放軍妓制度有罪」，卻又沒有足夠證據證明日本政府、軍方有在朝鮮半島進行「合法強迫推人入火坑」行為。
南韓的另外一個痛點是，他們最近被人查出，在韓戰期間自己有成立軍妓制度提供美軍性服務。
PRC態度怎樣我不知道，ROC自己有「813軍中樂園」歷史而且那年頭當過兵的人都知道。台灣在戰爭時期非戰地佔領區而是日本統治50年自國領土，如果沒有辦法舉證有日本政府、軍方涉及的人口販賣行為被害者以個人單位請求賠償，要學南韓那樣試圖打整個軍妓制度絕對行不通。
總而言之，我認為要抗議應該也只能抗議有非法皮條客強推入火坑案件的存在，而不是抗議軍妓制度本身。
不過我個人寧可社會大眾多關注一些現在的人口販賣狀況。台灣人以前頻繁非法販運大陸妹，現在販運越南妹、菲律賓妹的案子也是時有所聞。
－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》 |
Edited by - 慎．中野 on 02/27/2015 11:37:49 |
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 11:34:59
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quote:
Originally posted by cwchang2100
建議諸君仔細閱讀原文.
其實原文並無如此偏頗,翻譯時有斷章取義之嫌,沒有翻出全貌,所以才有這樣的爭議.
Manfred君的翻譯,和美帝此報告原意相距甚遠.
美帝有躺著也中槍的冤情.....
-----------------
這些秘密話語來自活著的耶穌，由迪迪摩斯•猶大•多馬記錄。
他說：「任何人發現了這些話的意義，將不會嚐到死亡的滋味。」
多馬福音第1節
小弟引述美军报告的就是下面6点
第一， 慰安妇是妓女。
第二， 慰安妇的收入相当的高。
第三， 慰安妇的地位不低。受到相当的保护。有常规身体检查并使用避孕套。并可以拒绝与日军发生性关系。
第四， 慰安妇在当地的生活可以用奢华来形容。
第五， 慰安妇的征召由日本和朝鲜的民间机构来担当。当中存在欺骗行为。不过从美军审讯官的角度这些被召来做慰安妇的女子基本可以用现在的大龄剩女来描述。不仅长的不好看，而且以当时的标准年龄略为偏大。
第六， 慰安妇的征召来源多半是未受过良好教育或者本就从事妓女职业。
请你指出哪里断章取义哪里相距甚远。
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greencao
路人甲乙丙
862 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 11:54:07
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这个就是战争罪行。
这么好的职业，希望楼主女性家属在战争中能够胜任。 |
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cwchang2100
我是老鳥
Cayman Islands
17243 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 12:15:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Manfred
小弟引述美军报告的就是下面6点
第一， 慰安妇是妓女。
第二， 慰安妇的收入相当的高。
第三， 慰安妇的地位不低。受到相当的保护。有常规身体检查并使用避孕套。并可以拒绝与日军发生性关系。
第四， 慰安妇在当地的生活可以用奢华来形容。
第五， 慰安妇的征召由日本和朝鲜的民间机构来担当。当中存在欺骗行为。不过从美军审讯官的角度这些被召来做慰安妇的女子基本可以用现在的大龄剩女来描述。不仅长的不好看，而且以当时的标准年龄略为偏大。
第六， 慰安妇的征召来源多半是未受过良好教育或者本就从事妓女职业。
请你指出哪里断章取义哪里相距甚远。
隨便都是呀!
斷章取義到好像過很爽.
那下面這句為何不翻????
Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls
by charging them high prices for food and other articles.
這類前後背景的省略,會極大誤導讀者!!!
例子多到罄竹難書的地步.
還有"professional camp follower"也沒寫.
這種關係到他人尊嚴的報告,怎麼可以不講前後文,隨意摘兩句翻.
會造成他人反彈,根本是意料之中.
沒有說譯者居心險惡就不錯了....
個人認為這種有爭議性的文章,要嘛就全翻.
至少要整段翻,要不然是有很大問題!
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這些秘密話語來自活著的耶穌，由迪迪摩斯•猶大•多馬記錄。
他說：「任何人發現了這些話的意義，將不會嚐到死亡的滋味。」
多馬福音第1節 |
Edited by - cwchang2100 on 02/27/2015 12:18:20 |
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27657 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 12:34:19
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quote:
Originally posted by greencao
这个就是战争罪行。
这么好的职业，希望楼主女性家属在战争中能够胜任。
不用戰爭和平時期就有人勝任啦。
昨天就有一則報導：
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http://www.appledaily.com.tw/appledaily/article/headline/20150226/36404947/
濱海工寮當砲房 漂浪海女賣淫直擊
2015年02月26日
攝影者：壹週刊提供
本刊日前接獲爆料，東部濱海公路從蘇澳到東北角海岸，有一群人妻輕熟女，靠著客人的口耳相傳介紹，流浪在海濱的小漁村中接客；只要客人出得起錢，從脫衣陪唱，到混P雜交來者不拒，交易地點更是完全配合客人，從精品汽車旅館到工寮、檳榔攤，任君所好。本刊全程直擊時與她們深聊，才知這群外表放浪形骸的女人，幾乎都是嫁給台籍船員的外籍配偶，因難解的家庭問題，才慢慢變成濱海公路上的「漂浪海女」。
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賣春跟人蛇不分平時戰時都存在，只是戰時因為戰地無法無天會很嚴重。
我很討厭民族主義議題就是這樣，雖然罪惡就是罪惡，但平時自家人犯罪睜一隻眼閉一隻眼甚至乾脆視而不見，扯到戰爭歷史問題突然間就正氣凜然了。找個議題來罵大家就爽了，或者不爽再打一場，死更多人。
偽善如果有現在進行式救到人的至少像樣一點。
台灣有句俗語意思是「別人吃麵在旁邊喊燙」，當年實際在廝殺的人都簽字和解了，我們到底要爭什麼。
這種戰爭歷史問題就是往往分不清，結果到底是要替被害者討公道，還是替自己討公道．．．．．．
－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》 |
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JOKER
路人甲乙丙
1854 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 13:03:21
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中野兄等人想認真討論這話題的話建議另開一欄。和一個因為辱國辱族已被管理員處分兩次的人沒有什麼好討論的。
本以為設法讓他被封掉一個多月之後他會收斂點，結果解封沒兩天他就又發作了。事不過三，我已經沒興趣第三次再去開欄投訴，各位如看不慣儘管拿石頭丟他好了。 |
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冗丙
版主
Taiwan
15848 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 15:23:30
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軍中有813跟這件事情有啥關聯??
至少人家50年來有哪一位女子跳出來說我是被軍方( 官方 )逼迫到813從事性交易的??
或者是反悔還不能跑掉，一跑就會被毆打或拿武士刀砍殺??
任何事情都有自願與非自願的，更何況是這種機車的事情!!中野講漂浪海女就屬不倫不類的比喻!!
明知道盲點在哪就不該這樣發言~~
忠義衛飯筒~剽悍吃燒肉~~
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27657 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 17:38:58
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quote:
軍中有813跟這件事情有啥關聯??
至少人家50年來有哪一位女子跳出來說我是被軍方( 官方 )逼迫到813從事性交易的??
或者是反悔還不能跑掉，一跑就會被毆打或拿武士刀砍殺??
1.合法軍妓制度本身有其合理立論存在，要一竿子打翻整個軍妓制度，以ROC有軍中樂園歷史，法理上站不住腳，不要學南韓。
2.確實有賣春業從業員是私人原因自願從事此職業。
3.可以指責個別慰安婦遭受不當拐賣、管理、待遇不佳等問題。（要打的是皮條客、老鴇、龜公，不是嫖客）
4.如果真的只是要救助拐賣、管理不佳的賣春業被害者，可以先由政府代墊賠償金，再蒐集證據向日本政府以個別戰爭受害案件求償。
5.就算打官司失敗，受害者至少也有拿到錢，日子比較好過。
所以我才質疑，現在我們戰後世代的人，到底是要幫忙受到拐賣的慰安婦求公道跟賠償金，還是只是要利用這些案件幫自己求公道跟賠償金？就算是後者也先付錢吧。
另外我個人的抱怨是，現在的我國非法賣春業之存在，以及現在的人口販運被害者所在多有，很少看見大眾對這類議題很激動。
－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》 |
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JOKER
路人甲乙丙
1854 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 17:44:04
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quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
1.合法軍妓制度本身有其合理立論存在，要一竿子打翻整個軍妓制度，以ROC有軍中樂園歷史，法理上站不住腳，不要學南韓。
（略）
關於“軍妓制度”的問題建議另開一欄。Manfred開這個主題以及剪裁資料的行為，明擺著是來討戰而不是討論的。如繼續於此回應，即使非您本意，恐將影響我及其他壇友對您的觀感。 |
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27657 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 17:52:23
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quote:
Originally posted by JOKER
quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
1.合法軍妓制度本身有其合理立論存在，要一竿子打翻整個軍妓制度，以ROC有軍中樂園歷史，法理上站不住腳，不要學南韓。
（略）
關於“軍妓制度”的問題建議另開一欄。Manfred開這個主題以及剪裁資料的行為，明擺著是來討戰而不是討論的。如繼續於此回應，即使非您本意，恐將影響我及其他壇友對您的觀感。
歷史界有俗話說，賣春業是歷史上最古老的行業，傭兵是歷史上第二古老的行業。我對這兩個行業有興趣，做了點業餘研究。
因此我個人對合法賣春業的存在持開放態度，在某些時空背景下，當時是合法的就是合法的。PRC那邊我不知道，但是ROC來台之後也很長一段時間有軍妓也有公娼等合法賣春業存在，只是後來收掉了。但是不能以今非古。
就好像我們現代人研究歷史可以指出古人有什麼奴隸、賤民之類的不人道制度，但是法理上不能拿此來審判古人說他們有罪。就算比如歐美人虐待欺壓原住民的歷史之類，之後政府公開道歉賠償，但是也不能指責當時參與這些活動的人有刑事責任，這是要分開的。
何況其實ROC現行法律上也是可以開設合法賣春業的紅燈區，只是地方政府多怕影響房價跟當地居民反彈等原因，不敢開設。台灣地小，沒辦法像古人一樣找個無人荒地或離島就蓋起性解放特區。
所以我的主張是可以就個別案件求償，但要全面批判軍妓制度站不住腳。
－－－－
「我乃是根據個人一向仰賴的研究方法而得出結論。我的方法就是：道聽途說加上斷章取義，然後歸納推理，最後忘掉訊息來源，開始強詞奪理，堅持我所言就是既定事實。」
史考特．亞當斯，《呆伯特之黃鼠狼當道》 |
Edited by - 慎．中野 on 02/27/2015 17:55:42 |
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JOKER
路人甲乙丙
1854 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 18:12:37
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quote:
Originally posted by 慎．中野
歷史界有俗話說，賣春業是歷史上最古老的行業，傭兵是歷史上第二古老的行業。我對這兩個行業有興趣，做了點業餘研究。
(略)
所以我的主張是可以就個別案件求償，但要全面批判軍妓制度站不住腳。
您是否未看懂我的回復？
在本主題的回復中，tongmenghui、greencao、cwchang2100等壇友都是對Manfred美化侵華日軍暴行、故意裁剪扭曲資料的行為表示憤怒。這甚至和軍妓制度都無關，而是針對開欄者的劣跡！
如您意識到冗丙大所述的“盲點”為何，想要認真討論軍妓制度相關問題，則希望將有關發言轉移到新的欄位。
此為本人在本主題下的最後回應，發佈此回應僅基於我對中野兄學識及以往討論態度的尊重，此外不再浪費時間！ |
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慎．中野
我是老鳥
27657 Posts |
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 20:53:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Clancy Asimov
quote:
Originally posted by cwchang2100
建議諸君仔細閱讀原文.
其實原文並無如此偏頗,翻譯時有斷章取義之嫌,沒有翻出全貌,所以才有這樣的爭議.
Manfred君的翻譯,和美帝此報告原意相距甚遠.
美帝有躺著也中槍的冤情.....
而且原文只是調查20名韩籍慰安妇在印缅戰區的經歷，是否可以推以廣之視為全太平洋區的情況甚有疑問。
不接受大陸出版物沒問題，不過海外對慰安妇問題的研究甚多，基本上都不支持日本保守派的說法:
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/11/15/opinion/comfort-women-and-japans-war-on-truth.html?_r=0
http://www.awf.or.jp/e4/un-01.html
http://afe.easia.columbia.edu/ps/korea/comfort_women.pdf
http://library.hku.hk/search~S6?/X Comfort%20Women &searchscope=6&Da=&Db=&SORT=D/X Comfort%20Women &searchscope=6&Da=&Db=&SORT=D&SUBKEY= Comfort Women /1%2C402%2C402%2CB/frameset&FF=X Comfort%20Women &searchscope=6&Da=&Db=&SORT=D&2%2C2%2C
The comfort women : sexual violence and postcolonial memory in Korea and Japan / C. Sarah Soh.
IMPRINT Chicago : University of Chicago Press, 2008.
http://library.hku.hk/search~S6?/XComfort Women&searchscope=6&SORT=DZ/XComfort Women&searchscope=6&SORT=DZ&SUBKEY=Comfort Women/1,402,402,B/frameset&FF=XComfort Women&searchscope=6&SORT=DZ&45,45,?save=b4074798
East Asia's haunted present : historical memories and the resurgence of nationalism / edited by Tsuyoshi Hasegawa and Kazuhiko Togo.
IMPRINT Westport, Conn. : Praeger Security International, 2008.
美军的报告中有写到缅甸的700-800名朝鲜慰安妇基本都是类似的状况。而日本左翼所著的随军慰安妇中通过类似途径征召的慰安妇在战争早期就有数千人。按照日本学者的估计，慰安妇的总数在10万以内，这已经是不算太小的样本。中共每年作人口统计年鉴时的抽样比例也不过在1%左右。
纽时说了半天，日本军直接整的慰安妇是四个印尼女人，说到白人，纽时的原文是这么写的：
Interned Dutch mothers traded their bodies in a church at a convent on Java to feed their children. British and Australian women who were shipwrecked off Sumatra after the makeshift hospital ship Vyner Brooke was bombed were given the choice between a brothel or starving in a P.O.W. camp.
主动以物质交换身体是否算强迫属于有争议吧？
至于UN的报告，就目前来看已经有好几个关键性证据被推翻，至于南亚女人不肯认错，那是其人品问题，而因为这些证据被推翻，报告的可靠度就大打折扣。更何况，这其中引述的很多访谈内容发生在战后相当长的时间而不如美国陆军的报告作于战时，那守战后各种因素的影响就很大。
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 20:56:36
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quote:
Originally posted by greencao
这个就是战争罪行。
这么好的职业，希望楼主女性家属在战争中能够胜任。
请你告诉我远东军事法庭这样一个胜利者的法庭什么时候把慰安妇制度定性为战争罪行？日军或者日本政府中的那些官员士兵因此而被起诉。请吧。 |
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Manfred
路人甲乙丙
Canada
1957 Posts |
Posted - 02/27/2015 : 21:14:36
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quote:
Originally posted by cwchang2100
隨便都是呀!
斷章取義到好像過很爽.
那下面這句為何不翻????
Many "masters" made life very difficult for the girls
by charging them high prices for food and other articles.
這類前後背景的省略,會極大誤導讀者!!!
例子多到罄竹難書的地步.
還有"professional camp follower"也沒寫.
這種關係到他人尊嚴的報告,怎麼可以不講前後文,隨意摘兩句翻.
會造成他人反彈,根本是意料之中.
沒有說譯者居心險惡就不錯了....
個人認為這種有爭議性的文章,要嘛就全翻.
至少要整段翻,要不然是有很大問題!
-----------------
這些秘密話語來自活著的耶穌，由迪迪摩斯•猶大•多馬記錄。
他說：「任何人發現了這些話的意義，將不會嚐到死亡的滋味。」
多馬福音第1節
哇，真的好难。难到住豪华居所，难到在战争时期这个物资匮乏的年代不但不愁吃喝，还有闲钱买衣服，鞋子甚至香烟化妆品这类非生存必须品。并且得到大量日军士兵的包裹馈赠。
难到还有时间和日军搞体育比赛，参加野餐会，最最出格的居然还有自由的时间和金钱去镇上血拼。这真他妈的难。
放今天，你说爱疯缺货，要价1000刀我也觉得好难。我住纽约酒店里要Room Service，一个牛排大几十刀也可以说成被charge high price on food。隔壁转弯是汉堡王，5刀添堡肚子，但你说老子就像吃牛排，还不想下楼，那你怪别人charge high price on food然后made life very difficult?这些女人可是有到外面血拼的自由。用甄环传里的话说“贱人就是矫情”。
They lived in near-luxury in Burma in comparison to other places. This was especially true of their second year in Burma. They lived well because their food and material was not heavily rationed and they had plenty of money with which to purchase desired articles. They were able to buy cloth, shoes, cigarettes, and cosmetics to supplement the many gifts given to them by soldiers who had received "comfort bags" from home.
While in Burma they amused themselves by participating in sports events with both officers and men, and attended picnics, entertainments, and social dinners. They had a phonograph and in the towns they were allowed to go shopping.
原文说慰安妇每月差不多赚1500烟，被中介剥削一半，大概能剩750烟。下面是二战日军官兵的收入，看清楚，那是年收入（下士官以下才是月额）。缅甸的朝鲜慰安妇的收入比日本大将还要高近50%。是普通大头兵的100倍。生活真是好难哦。Manfred断章取义的好离谱哦。
http://bbs.tiexue.net/post_5924256_1.html |
Edited by - Manfred on 02/27/2015 23:57:22 |
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標題 |
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慰安妇可以讨论吧？
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